[00:00:04]
THOSE ARE HEREBY GIVING A I REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING
[I. COMMENCEMENT ]
TO BE HELD ON THURSDAY, JANUARY 25TH, 2024 AT 7:00 PM IN THE COMPTON CHAMBERS OF FLUTE CITY HALL, LOCATED AT 1 0 8 MAIN STREET, KLUTE, TEXAS 7 7 5 3 1.FOR THE BELOW LISTED ITEMS, CITY COUNCIL RESERVES THE RIDE TO ADJOURN INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AT ANY TIME DURING THE COURSE OF THIS MEETING TO DISCUSS ANY MATTERS LISTED ON THE AGENDA AS AUTHORIZED BY THE TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO SECTIONS 5 5 1 0.071.
CONSULTATION WITH AN ATTORNEY.
5 5 1 0.072 DELIBERATION ABOUT REAL PROPERTY 5 5 1 0.073 DELIBERATIONS ABOUT GIFTS AND DONATIONS.
5 5 1 0 7 4 PERSONNEL MATTERS.
DELIBERATION ABOUT HOME, ABOUT SECURITY DEVICES 5 5 1 0 8 7.
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT 4 8 7 5 8 3 DELIBERATION ABOUT HOMELAND SECURITY ISSUES AND IS AUTHORIZED BY THE TEXAS TAX CODE.
INCLUDED BUT NOT LIMITED TO SECTION 3 2 1 0.3022 SALES TAX INFORMATION.
THE AGENDA MEETING PACKET AND VIDEO LINK ARE POSTED ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE@WWW.CLUTEXAS.GOV.
PUBLIC COMMENTS WILL BE ALLOWED IN PERSON WILL BEGIN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING UNDER THE PUBLIC COMMENT ITEM.
TO REGISTER TO SPEAK OR SUBMIT WRITTEN COMMENTS, PLEASE EMAIL CITY CLERK ROSIE POINT AT ROSIE@KLUTEXAS.GOV.
AT LEAST TWO HOURS IN ADVANCE OF THE MEETING, THE RECORDING OF THE VIDEO MEETING WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE UPON WRITTEN REQUEST TO THE PUBLIC IN ACCORDING WITH THE MEETINGS DONE.
MEETING HAS NOW BEEN CALLED TO ORDER.
MR. VAUGHN, WILL YOU CARE TO PRAY UPON US? DEAR FATHER, WE THANK YOU FOR ANOTHER DAY ESPECIALLY.
THANK YOU FOR THE SUNSHINE RAIN.
WE KNOW THE RAIN IS NEEDED, TOLEN.
THIRD, WE WANNA HAVE TO BUILD A, WE JUST ASK THAT YOU, UH, BLESS THIS MEETING TO MAKE ALL THE DECISIONS.
YOU KNOW WHAT YOU, THE CITY, YOU KNOW, FOLLOW AND JUST EVERYONE'S OUR RESPONDERS, WE JUST, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT A THEY.
WHEN WE RUN AWAY, THEY RUN INTO THE WAR.
WE JUST ASK THAT TO WATCH OVER THEM, KEEP THEM SAFE, HOME SAFE TO THEIR FAMILIES EACH TIME.
LORD, WE JUST ASK THAT YOU CONTINUE TO BLESS OUR, JOIN US IN THE PLEDGE, PLEASE PLEDGE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS.
ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
NEXT ITEM WOULD BE ROLL CALL CAL SHIFFLETT.
PRESENT, NICOLE MADDOX PRESENT.
SO WE WILL FOREGO READING, UH,
[III. CONSENT AGENDA ]
UH, CITIZEN VISITOR COMMENTS AND MOVE INTO THE CONSENT AGENDA.AND ITEMS UNDER THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE CONSIDERED ROUTINE ARE GENERALLY ENACTED IN ONE MOTION.
THE EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE IS THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS MAY REQUEST ONE OR MORE ITEMS BE REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA FOR SEPARATE ACTION.
TONIGHT'S AGENDA CONSISTS OF MINUTES, JOINT PUBLIC HEARING AND REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING FROM JANUARY THE 11TH, 2024 AT 7:00 PM DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN AGUILAR.
ANY ITEMS NEED TO BE REMOVED? ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.
[IV. RECOGNITIONS AND PRESENTATION ]
THANK YOU.NEXT ITEM WOULD BE RECOGNITIONS AND PRESENTATIONS.
UM, OUR CL VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT HAD THEIR BANQUET THIS PAST WEEKEND AND THERE THERE WAS A VOTE AMONG THE MEMBERS.
AND WE HAVE WITH US TONIGHT, TWO DISTINGUISHED GUESTS THAT WERE VOTED AS AUXILIARY MEMBER OF THE YEAR AND FIREFIGHTER OF THE YEAR.
AND THEY ARE MS. BETTY DOUCETTE AND CHASE GAREY.
IF Y'ALL WANT TO COME DOWN FRONT, WE WILL REPRESENT THE PLAQUE.
WE'RE GONNA BE IN Y'ALL BACKGROUND.
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THANK YOU.[V. BUSINESS ITEMS ]
NEXT ITEM WOULD BE CONSIDERATION THE POSSIBLE ACTION TO ADOPT ORDINANCE NUMBER 2024 DASH OH OH THREE.CALLING THE GENERAL ELECTION FOR MAY 4TH, 2024.
THERE WOULD BE ORDINANCE NUMBER 2024 DASH OH OH THREE.
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY INCLUDE TEXAS CONTAIN A PREAMBLE CALLING A GENERAL ELECTION FOR THE FIRST SATURDAY OF MAY, 2024, BEING MAY 4TH, 2024 FOR THE ELECTION AT LARGE OF A MAYOR FOR SAID CITY AND ELECTION BY WARDS FOR POSITIONS A, C AND E ON THE CITY COUNCIL OF SAID CITY PROVIDING FOR ONE POLLING PLACE AND THE DESIGNATING LOCA DESIGNATING THE LOCATION THEREOF.
ESTABLISHING THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR CANDIDATES FOR THE OFFICES TO BE VOTED UPON, PROVIDED FOR APPLICATIONS FOR CANDIDATES IS SPECIFYING A FILING DEADLINE AND A DATE WHEN FILING MAY BEGIN PROVIDING FOR THE QUALIFICATION OF THE ELECTORS, APPOINTING THE OFFICERS OF SET ELECTION AND DESIGNATING A NUMBER OF CLERKS TO ASSIST IN CONDUCTING SET ELECTION AND THE COMPENSATION TO BE PAID.
THE ELECTION JUDGE AND CLERKS PROVIDING FOR EARLY VOTING, PROVIDING FOR RATIFICATION AND CONFIRMATION BY THE MAYOR OF SAID CITY OF THE ACTS TAKEN BY THIS ORDINANCE AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE.
WOULD ANYONE CARE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ORDINANCE NUMBER 2024 DASH OH THREE? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
MOTION MADE BY COUNCIL PERSON.
HEARING NONE, I'LL ENTERTAIN A VOTE.
WE'LL PAY THE COUNTY TO HAVE AN ELECTION
UH, MAYOR, AND I'LL COUNT THE VOTES.
NEXT ITEM WOULD BE CONSIDERATION OF POSSIBLE ACTION TO ADOPT A RESOLUTION NUMBER OH THREE DASH 2024.
THIS IS A RESOLUTION NOT AT ORDINANCE, OKAY? CORRECT? YES SIR.
THE RESOLUTION PROVIDING THAT THE ELECTION HELD BY THE CITY OF ON MAY 4TH, 2024 BE HELD JOINTLY WITH OTHER ENTITIES IN BRAZORIA COUNTY, HAVING THE ELECTION THE SAME DAY AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT AND CONTRACT WITH BRAZORIA COUNTY FOR ELECTION SERVICES IN CONNECTION WITH SUCH ELECTION.
AND IT WOULD BE RESOLUTION NUMBER OH THREE DASH 2024.
THE RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF CITY INCLUDE TEXAS CONTAINING THAT PREAMBLE, PROVIDING THAT THE ANNUAL ELECTION CALL BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF SAID CITY FOR THE ELECTION OF A MAYOR AND COUNCIL MEMBER FOR COUNCIL POSITIONS AC AND E CALL FOR THE FIRST SATURDAY IN MAY, 2024, BEING THE FOURTH DAY OF MAY BEING HELD JOINTLY WITH ALL ELECTIONS CALLED FOR THE SAME DAY BY OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS LOCATED IN BRAZO COUNTY, TEXAS, AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR AND THE CITY CLERK OF CC TO EXECUTE AND ATEST RESPECTIVELY A JOINT ELECTION AGREEMENT AND CONTRACT FOR ELECTION SERVICES WITH THE COUNTY CLERK OF BRAZORIA COUNTY, TEXAS, WHICH SPECIFIES IN AN ATTACHMENT THERE TO THE LOCATION OF THE COMMON POLLING PLACES AND WHICH MAKES PROVISION FOR THE OFFICERS OF SAID JOINT ELECTION AND THEIR COMPENSATION ALLOCATES THE EXPENSES OF SUCH JOINT ELECTION AND MAKES PROVISIONS FOR EARLY VOTING, THE BALLOT, BALLOT BOXES, ELECTION FORMS AND RECORDS, AND THE CUSTODIAN THEREOF PROVIDED THAT THIS RESOLUTION SHALL TAKE EFFECT AND BE OF ENFORCED FROM AND AFTER ITS PASSAGE AND ADOPTION, AND PROVIDING THAT THE ORIGINAL OF THIS RESOLUTION SHALL BE MAINTAINED IN THE, BY THE CITY CLERK AND THE PERMANENT RECORDS OF SAID CITY AND ASSERT A FIRED COPY THEREOF.
AND, AND OF THE, UH, EXECUTED AND AT TESTED AGREEMENT HEREBY AUTHORIZED TO BE SENT TO THE COUNTY CLERK OF BRAZO COUNTY, TEXAS ONE CARE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION NUMBER OH THREE DASH 2024.
I MAKE A MOTION MADE BY COUNCILPERSON MADDOX.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE ALL ENTERTAIN THE VOTE.
NEXT ITEM WOULD BE CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTS TO ADOPT ORDINANCE NUMBER 2024 DASH OH OH FOUR REGULATING ITINERANT VENDORS.
AND IT WOULD BE ORDINANCE NUMBER 2024 DASH OH OH FOUR.
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AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF CLU, TEXAS CONTAINED THAT PREAMBLE, AMENDING CHAPTER 26, BUSINESSES OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF SAID CITY.ADDING ARTICLE SIX REGULATING ITINERANT OUTDOOR SALES AND COMMERCIAL ZONES CONTAINING A SEVERANCE CLAUSE CONTAINING A REPEAL CLAUSE AND PROVIDE THIS ORDINANCE SHALL TAKE EFFECT AND BE ENFORCED FROM AND AFTER IT.
DESCRIPTIVE CAPTION HAS BEEN PUBLISHED TWICE IN NEBRASKA.
IF I GET A MOTION AND A SECOND WE'LL HAVE DISCUSSION.
HAVE A MOTION BY COUNCILMAN AGUILAR.
DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND AND HAVE A SECOND FOR DISCUSSION FLOORS.
SO WE'VE HAD A PROLIFERATION OF BUSINESSES ALLOWING OTHER INDIVIDUALS OR BUSINESSES SETTING UP SHOP AND RUNNING GARAGE SALES, RAMAGE SALES, SIDEWALK SALES, UH, AROUND THE CITY IN COMMERCIAL ZONES.
UH, SO THE MOST NODS PROBABLY RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, THAT'S ACTUALLY THE BUSINESS OPERATING AS A GARAGE SALE.
BUT IF YOU GO FURTHER DOWN MAIN TOWARDS THE CABINET SHOP ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRACKS, THEY'VE ALLOWED SOMEBODY TO SET UP A RUMMAGE SALE IN THEIR FRONT YARD.
ADDITIONALLY, WE'VE GOT A SALE ALMOST CONSTANTLY GOING ON AT ONE OF THE, UH, STORAGE PLACES.
THAT'S NOT THE ACTUAL STORAGE PLACE.
IT'S SOMEBODY INSIDE THE STORAGE PLACE OPERATING THE SALE.
BUT USING THAT SITE, WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE QUALITY OF THE GOODS.
WE HAVE NO COLLECTION OF SALES TAX BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS THAT'S BEING CONDUCTED IS TYPICALLY CASH.
UH, WE DON'T KNOW THE NATURE OF THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE BUSINESS AND THE PERSON DOING THE LEASING.
AND SO HAVING LOOKED AT THAT, WE DECIDED TO COME UP WITH, I GUESS, A CHANGE TO OUR EXISTING ORDINANCE.
THIS WOULD NOT AFFECT GARAGE SHALES OR ROMAN SHELLS IN RESIDENTIAL ZONES.
THIS APPLIES SOLELY TO COMMERCIALLY ZONED BUSINESSES THAT ALLOW ANOTHER BUSINESS TO OPERATE ON THEIR PREMISES.
AND WE WOULD EXEMPT, OBVIOUSLY, FOOD TRUCKS AND THAT KIND OF THING, BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA HOLD A RUM TO SALE, YOU WOULD BASICALLY BE LIMITED.
UH, THE OTHER THING THAT WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF AND HAD A REQUEST FOR IS, UH, LIKE THE MICHELADA GUY AND THE, UH, CERTAIN MOBILE, UH, CELLULAR SERVICE VENDORS WANNA SET UP POPUPS IN FRONT OF OTHER BUSINESSES, AND WE'VE NOT ALLOWED THOSE IN THE PAST.
SO WE'VE GOTTA GET EVERYBODY ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD AS IT WERE.
SO IF THE BUSINESS OWNER, LIKE WE WERE SAYING, LIKE A STORAGE PLACE, THEY THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE PUTTING ON THE SALE OF GOODS OR WHATEVER THAT IS NOT ALLOWED OR THAT IS THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED THAT THAT WOULD TYPICALLY BE ALLOWED.
BUT WE WOULD ASK THEM 'CAUSE THEY'RE THE BUSINESS RIGHT THERE, AND THEY'RE LITERALLY JUST SELLING.
BUT WE WOULD ALSO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF DAYS THAT THEY COULD DO THE OUTDOOR SALES SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE AN ONGOING OUTDOOR MARKET IN FRONT OF THE BUSINESS.
AND SO THIS, THIS IS THE FIRST KIND OF A FIRST RUN AT RIGHT? YOU KNOW, SOME IDEAS AND WHATEVER FEEDBACK Y'ALL HAVE, IF WHEN Y'ALL CAN PASS IT TODAY OR WE CAN, UH, YOU KNOW, TAKE ACTION AT A LATER DATE.
THE THE WAY THAT I HAVE IT SET UP IS THAT IF, IF YOU HAVE A REGULAR BUSINESS OR YOU HAVE A LEASE FOR MORE THAN 120 DAYS, UM, THAT, UH, YOUR, OR IT'S YOUR BUSINESS THAT YOU CAN HAVE OUTDOOR SALES, BUT YOU, YOU JUST HAVE A LIMIT.
YOU CAN ONLY DO FIVE DAYS, UH, FOR EVERY, UM, FOUR MONTH TIME PERIOD EVERY QUARTER, RIGHT? SO A TOTAL OF 20 DAYS PER YEAR, YOU CAN HAVE, YOU KNOW, PARKING LOT, SALE, LIQUIDATION, SALE OR WHATEVER RIGHT? WHETHER IT'S THE ACTUAL BUSINESS OR SOMEBODY ELSE THAT COMES IN.
IF THEY HAVE A FOUR MONTH LEASE, THEN THEY CAN DO IT, RIGHT? UM, AND SO THAT TIME PERIOD, UH, APPLIES WHETHER IT'S THE ACTUAL STORE OR THEY SUBLEASE IT.
UM, UH, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN AND THEY'RE SELLING SOMETHING AND THEY DON'T HAVE AT LEAST A, A FOUR MONTH LEASE, THEN THEY WOULD BE CONSIDERED PEDDLERS.
AND WE HAVE A, UH, PIDDLER ORDINANCE UNDER CHAPTER 86 THAT REQUIRES REGISTRATION AND BACKGROUND CHECKS, AND YOU HAVE TO GET A LICENSE FROM THE, FROM THE, UH, POLICE DEPARTMENT AND AND SO FORTH, RIGHT? SO WE WOULD TREAT THE, THE FLY BY NIGHT FOLKS THAT COME IN AND COME OUT, UM, THE SAME AS THE PEOPLE THAT GO DOOR TO DOOR SOLICITING, UM, IN, IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, RIGHT? SO, UH, SO THE WAY THAT IT'S WRITTEN NOW IS THERE'S A LIMIT ON HOW MANY DAYS, YOU KNOW, ONLY 20 DAYS PER YEAR THAT YOU CAN HAVE THESE OUTDOOR SALES.
AND IT DOESN'T, WHETHER YOU'RE A, A COME AND GO PERSON OR YOU'RE THE, THE ACTUAL BUSINESS OWNER, UM, THERE'S A TIME LIMIT.
AND THEN IF YOU ARE A PERSON THAT'S NOT THERE FOR AT LEAST FOUR MONTH LEASE, THEN UH, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PEDDLER ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS.
AND ALSO I PUT IN THERE A PRESUMPTION THAT, UH, UH, YOU'RE PRESUMED TO BE A, A TEMPORARY PERSON UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A COPY OF THE LEASE WITH YOU.
'CAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THAT DEAL ABOUT, OH YEAH, I'VE GOT A LEASE, YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
WELL, WHERE'S MY LEASE? WHERE'S THE LEASE? OH, I'LL
[00:15:01]
GET IT TO YOU.RIGHT? SO, UM, I HAD IN THERE THAT YOU'RE A, IT'S PRESUMED THAT YOU'RE A, IT, YOU'RE ITINERANT YOU'RE A TEMPORARY PERSON UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER, CODE ENFORCEMENT, PD, WHOEVER IS ENFORCING THIS GOES UP AND SAYING, OKAY, YOU KNOW, WHERE'S YOUR, DO YOU HAVE YOUR LEASE SO WE CAN KNOW SHOULD YOU HAVE A PEDAL'S LICENSE OR NOT? AND, UH, YOU'RE PRESUMED TO BE REQUIRED TO HAVE THE PEDAL'S LICENSE UNLESS YOU HAVE THE LEASE ON HAND WHERE YOU'RE CONDUCTING THE BUSINESS.
SO ARE YOU SAYING LIKE, ERIC OWNS THE BUSINESS, I COME UP AND SAY, HEY, CAN I START SELLING WHATEVER IN YOUR PARKING LOT? I HAVE TO.
WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED PEDDLER? BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A LEASE.
HE HAS A LEASE AND IS, HAS HIS BUSINESS.
AND THAT'S THE REQUIREMENTS ON ME ARE WHAT? SO THE SIR THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, YOU WOULD BE THE PEDDLER AND YOU'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE BACKGROUND CHECK AT THE PERMIT.
NOW LET'S SAY, LET'S SAY I OWN A BUILDING AND LIKE JEFF, YOU KNOW, HE OWNS A BUILDING, HE HAS A SHOP.
UH, OR EVEN IF IT'S JUST A REGULAR STORE, THAT BUSINESS OWNER AND THAT BUILDING OWNER WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SET UP SHOP OUTSIDE FOR MORE THAN THREE DAYS, FOR MORE THAN 20 DAYS OUT OF THE YEAR.
EVEN IF, EVEN IF IT'S HIS BUILDING.
SO IF THAT'S, AND AGAIN, THIS IS, IT'S A ROUGH DRAFT.
IT'S A ROUGH DRAFT AND IT'S, WE'RE HERE TO, IF YOU WANNA CHANGE THAT, MAKE IT MORE, MAKE IT LESS.
SO THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY, THEY WOULD HAVE OKAY.
EXPLAIN THE PART WHERE, WHEN WOULD SOMEBODY BE ALLOWED THAT IS NOT THE BUSINESS OWNER TO BE ABLE TO SELL ON A BUSINESS PROPERTY THAT IS NOT THEIR OWN? AND YOU WERE SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT A FOUR MONTH LEASE.
WELL YOU SAID THAT'S THE HANDLERS, RIGHT? RIGHT.
THEY CAN DO IT ANY TIME, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT MORE THAN 20 DAYS A YEAR.
SO YOU OWN THE PROPERTY OR YOU LEASE THE PROPERTY AND YOU WANNA BRING IN TEMPORARY PEOPLE.
YOU CAN BRING TEMPORARY PEOPLE, BUT YOU CAN'T BRING IN TEMPORARY PEOPLE FOR MORE THAN 20 DAYS A YEAR.
SO IT BASICALLY REALLY DISCOURAGES, YOU KNOW, THE OUTDOOR SALES FROM BEING JUST AN EVERYDAY RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, NOW THERE'S THINGS TO CONSIDER.
'CAUSE SOME, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY YOU'RE THE, AND YOU SEE IT ALL THE TIME, I GUESS UP IN HOUSTON.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE SEE IT HERE, BUT YOU KNOW, UH, THEY HAVE MATTRESSES OUT IN THE MM-HMM.
'CAUSE THEY WANT TO GET ATTENTION.
RIGHT? WELL, THEY COULDN'T DO THAT UNDER THIS ORDINANCE FOR MORE THAN 20 DAYS A YEAR.
OR YOU HAVE PEOPLE, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO THIS, THEY'LL GO BUY, UM, GOODS AT GARAGE SALES AND THEN THEY COME AND RESELL IT.
AND SOME PEOPLE DO IT INSIDE A SHOP, WHICH IS PERFECTLY COOL.
UH, BUT THIS ORDINANCE WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T HAVE AN OUTDOOR, BASICALLY CONSTANTLY RUNNING RESALE CORRECT.
UM, YOU KNOW, UM, SO YOU'RE SAYING A BUSINESS THAT A LEGIT, LIKE A FURNITURE BUSINESS, THEY CAN'T HAVE, LIKE I, YOU SEE THEY PUT COUCHES OR SOMETHING OUTSIDE THEIR DOOR TO KIND OF DRAW ATTENTION.
NOT FOR MORE THAN NOT IN THE PARKING LOT, BUT LIKE UP AGAINST THE BUILDING OR WHATEVER.
YOU'VE GOTTA STOP AND THINK IF A BUSINESS IS CLOSED ON WEEKENDS, THEY'RE ONLY OPEN 22 DAYS A MONTH ANYWAY.
BUT THIS IS SAYING A YEAR, 20 DAYS PER YEAR.
NOW THERE, AND THERE'S A LOT OF UN YOU COULD HAVE A LOT OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
THAT'S WHY THIS IS ROUGH DRAFT THAT WE WOULD NEED TO TALK THROUGH BECAUSE YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY AS WE'RE SITTING HERE AND I'M LOOKING AT THIS, I'M LIKE, OKAY, WHAT ABOUT IF YOU'RE SELLING CARS, OBVIOUSLY THE CARS ARE OUTDOORS, RIGHT? WELL, SO THE CAR, I THINK YOU WOULD CARVE OUT AN EXCEPTION FOR CARS.
AND I DON'T HAVE THE, I DON'T HAVE THE FOOD TRUCK, YOU KNOW, EXCEPTION IN HERE, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, NOW THEY, UNDER THIS, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO MORE THAN 20 DAYS IN ONE LOCATION, I GUESS, BUT WELL, THEY WOULDN'T BE ILLEGAL.
BUT YOU DO, YOU WANNA MAKE A DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, AN EXCEPTION FOR FOOD TRUCKS, YOU KNOW, SO ONE OF THESE THINGS YOU CAN HAVE A LOT OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S BEST TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT IT.
AND BECAUSE I'M THINKING ABOUT, AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE, IT'S ON PLANTATION AND THEY DO COUNTERTOPS AND THEY HAVE THE GRANITE AND STUFF OUTSIDE AND IT'S ALWAYS OUT THERE.
NO, IT'S NOT THERE CLOSE FAR THAT THEY WOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO DO THAT 20 DAYS A YEAR.
BUT IT'S NOT REALLY A S SEE IN MY MIND THAT STORY, IT'S NOT A SALE.
THEY'RE NOT SELLING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
LIKE I'M THINKING PEOPLE COME OUT TO A BUSINESS OWNER'S PROPERTY AND ARE SELLING THINGS THAT ARE NOT RELATED TO THE BUSINESS AT ALL.
WHEREAS, WELL, BASICALLY THEY'RE STORING, SAY THAT AGAIN.
I MEAN THEY'RE, THEY'RE BASICALLY STORING THAT OUTSIDE JUST LIKE OUR USED CAR LOT, RIGHT.
I MEAN, THE SALES CONTACT IS ACTUALLY STILL IN THE BUILDING.
BUT, BUT THEN WOULD THEY BE, LIKE I SAID, THE FURNITURE STORE THAT PUTS THE COUCHES OUTSIDE, THAT'S, SO IF YOU WANT TO TWEAK IT TO SAY THAT THE PS STUFF, ARE THEY GONNA BE IN BREACH OF THE, IF YOU WANNA SAY
[00:20:01]
THAT THE POS MUST BE LOCATED INSIDE THE BUSINESS, THE EXISTING BUSINESS.THAT IS THE, THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD.
WHAT WE'VE GOT IS BUSINESS SITTING UP INSIDE OF BUSINESSES THAT ARE CLOSED, THEY'RE USING THE PARKING LOTS IN PLACES.
AND, AND THAT'S WHAT WHAT I'M SAYING IS I JUST DON'T WANT A BUSINESS OWNER THAT, LIKE I SAID, THAT DISC FURNITURE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO BE TOLD, YOU CAN'T PUT YOUR COUCHES OUT THAT AREN'T IN ANYBODY'S WAY THAT ARE TOTALLY RELATED TO YOUR BUSINESS.
WHEN WHAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO STOP IS PEOPLE COMING AND SETTING UP SHOP IN THE PARKING LOT AND SELLING, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
SO THIS, THIS ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, THRIFT STORE STUFF, THIS PROPOSAL ORDINANCE ATTEMPTS TO ADDRESS TWO PROBLEMS. BUT MAYBE ONE PROBLEM IS NOT A PROBLEM.
UH, ONE PROBLEM IS, YOU KNOW, THE ITINERANT PEOPLE THAT COME AND GO AND SET UP SHOP AND, YOU KNOW, HERE TODAY, GONE TOMORROW AND, UM, DON'T REALLY HAVE NECESSARILY A, I GUESS A INCENTIVE TO KEEP PLACES NICE AND ORDERLY, I GUESS IT LOOKS BAD.
AND THEN THE OTHER PROBLEM THAT MAY NOT BE A PROBLEM IS PEOPLE JUST SELLING STUFF OUTSIDE THAT JUST LOOKS BAD, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, APPEARANCE WISE, RIGHT? SO MAYBE THAT, MAYBE BUSINESS IS SELLING THINGS OUTSIDE IN THE PARKING LOT IS NOT A PROBLEM.
MAYBE THE PROBLEM IS JUST THE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING AND GOING AND SETTING UP TEMPORARY SHOP AND TAKING OFF AND UM, YEAH, BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE, WE ALSO HAVE CERTAIN BUSINESSES THAT, WE ALSO HAVE CERTAIN BUSINESSES THAT ARE ALLOWED TO DO FORECLOSURE SALES OR CERTAIN, I MEAN, AFTER THEY'VE HAD STUFF FOR SOMEBODY HAD PAID THEIR BILL FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, THEY YEAH.
STORAGE UNITS, UH, STORAGE LOTS.
THOSE KIND OF PLACES ARE ALLOWED BY LAW TO HAVE OUTDOOR AUCTION.
BUT THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION, ALL OF THIS IS EVA, THE, UH, SALES TAX.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU PUT THAT INTO AN ORDINANCE.
WELL, WE GOT THIS IN THE NEXT ORDINANCE BIGGEST, THIS IS THE NEXT ORDINANCE WE'VE GOT.
WE'VE GOT ORDINANCES RIGHT NOW THAT WE CAN ENFORCE.
SO IF THIS IS NOT, HOW DO WE MAKE THIS ENFORCEABLE, RIGHT? JUST ANOTHER ORDINANCE ON THE BOOKS.
WE DON'T ALREADY HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD TAKE CARE OF THIS IF WE HAD A WAY TO ENFORCE IT.
GARAGE SALES, TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, ALL THESE THINGS THAT STEM FROM THESE BUSINESSES WE DON'T WANT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE TEETH TO TAKE CARE OF THE ORDINANCE.
I I MEAN THAT'S, UH, UH, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I READ INTO IT.
AND, UH, THE SALES TAX IS AN ISSUE.
I MEAN, I, I CAN PUT MY FINGER ON 10 BUSINESSES RIGHT NOW.
BACK UP 10 THINGS THAT ARE OPERATING AS A BUSINESS AND THEY'RE NOT COLLECTING OR PAYING A SEND A SALES TAX.
BUT YET ARE THEY IN A LOCATION OR YOU, IS THIS WHERE THEY'RE LIKE IN A PARKING LOT, PARKING LOTS? SOME BUSINESSES THAT DON'T HAVE A COI.
'CAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BROUGHT THE BUILDING UP TO CODE.
SO LET'S JUST USE THE PARKING LOT.
I'VE BEEN LEANING ON HIM AND HE GOES, WE AIN'T GOT A WAY TO ENFORCE IT.
I DON'T MEAN TO THROW EVERYTHING OFF TRACK.
BUT I THINK, THINK THIS IS WHAT THIS WAS TRYING TO ENC YOU KNOW, TO ENCUMBERS SOME OF THESE SALES LIKE THAT.
'CAUSE I WAS GONNA, AND THE OTHER THING I WAS GONNA BRING UP WAS LIKE THAT UH, BUSINESS THAT OPENED UP ON MAIN STREET THAT WE WENT TO THE OPENING FOR, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY SOMETIMES HAVE, YOU KNOW, TABLES AND STUFF OUTSIDE SHOWING THEIR STUFF.
BUT STILL, YOU KNOW, YOU GO INSIDE AND YOU PAY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE POINT OF SALES IS ABOVE POINT.
THE ONE THAT OPENED UP ACROSS THE STREET OVER HERE HAS HAD COATRACKS OUT THERE THE OTHER DAY WHEN IT WAS COLD
BUT SHE'S, AND SHE, SHE DUBS THAT A GARAGE SALE, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY A BUSINESS AND THAT IS HER BUSINESS MODEL AND SHE HAS HER POINT OF SALE INSIDE THE STORE, THE SITUATION.
SO MAYBE THAT, THAT'S THE RULE THAT WE NEED TO, THAT IF YOU'RE THE BUSINESS OWNER AND YOU HAVE TO GO INSIDE, IF THE CUSTOMER HAS TO GO INSIDE AND PAY AND YOU ARE COLLECTING SALES TAX, THEN, THEN IT'S ALLOWED.
WHAT, WHAT ABOUT BUSINESSES THAT HOST LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD GARAGE SALES? DOES THAT AFFECT IT IN ANY WAY? BUT IF IT'S IN A RESIDENTIAL ZONE, WE DIDN'T, WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE THAT WAS MAYBE A BRIDGE TOO FAR.
WE FELT LIKE WE'RE, YOU'D GET A SITUATION LIKE LET'S SAY AT THE CABINET SHOP WHERE YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY SET UP SELLING CONSIGNED GOODS OUT OF THE FRONT OF THE STORE AND THE BUSINESS IS LICENSED AND THE C IS RECOGNIZING A CABINET SHOP THAT NEEDS TO BE INTERVENED WITH.
OR IF YOU'RE TRYING TO SELL OR LEASE OTHER MATERIAL GOODS AT A PLACE THAT AGAIN, YOU DON'T HAVE CONTROL OF, THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE, A LOT OF THE CHURCHES HAVE COMMUNITY GARAGE SALES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO I MEAN THAT, THAT WOULD STILL FALL UNDER THE, THE GARAGE SALE PERMITTING PROCESS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
[00:25:01]
WOULD THE, THE DATE LIMITATION CHRIS AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO, WE WERE TRYING TO FINAGLE A WAY TO ALLOW SOME FLEXIBILITY FOR YOU TO DO LIKE THE, THE, THE AUCTIONS AT THE STORAGE FACILITIES OR, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE TIME A, YOU KNOW, WE, I THINK THE MATTRESS SALES OR WHATEVER IT IS TO GIVE THEM SOME FLEXIBILITY, WE CAN EXPAND THAT OR CONTRACT IT.WE, OUR THINK OUR THINKING WAS MORE ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT JEFF BROUGHT UP ABOUT, HEY, WE'VE GOT THINGS, BUSINESS BEING TRANSACTED WITH NO WAY TO TRACE IT, NO WAY TO CONTROL IT, AND NO WAY TO REGULATE IT OR GAIN.
AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE BASICALLY PARASITING OFF OF THE SYSTEM.
SO, AND EVEN IF SOMEBODY COME WITH A COMPLAINT, HEY, I GOT RIPPED OFF, BUT I BOUGHT THIS.
NOTHING, UH, THEY TOOK MY MONEY AND WHATEVER.
AND YOU GO, WE DON'T HAVE ANY DOCUMENTATION OF WHO THEY WERE.
SO IT, IT, YOU COULD BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF OUT THERE, MR. DU THAT HE MENTIONED IT A MINUTE AGO AND EVERYTHING TOO, BUT HOW THAT, LIKE ALL THE MECHANIC SHOPS THAT WE HAVE HERE, WELL, IT'S ONLY GOT FOUR SALES SIGNS ON THEIR VEHICLES OUT THERE IN FRONT.
HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT THAT? WELL, I THINK IF THEY'RE A LICENSED AUTO DEALER, THEY WOULD FALL UNDER THE AUTO SALES PROVISIONS DEALER MECHANICAL ON IT.
AND WELL, I KNOW ONE IN TOWN SELVES.
ONE IN TOWN APPARENTLY WENT AND GOT A, A, A DEALER LICENSE TO TRY AND GET US OFF OF HIS CASE.
SO
I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE PROBLEM I'M TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND AND COME UP WITH A SOLUTION IS SPECIFICALLY THE SALES TAX, YOU KNOW, AND THE NEXT ORDINANCE WE HAVE, IT SAYS, WELL YOU, YOU NEED TO HAVE A LOCAL SALES TAX CERTIFICATE TO GET YOUR CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
BUT, UH, I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT, UH, WHAT, UH, MR. CHRIS JUST SAID ABOUT, WELL, THEY CAN'T GET THEIR BUILDING UP TO CODE, SO THEY'RE JUST SELLING OUTTA THE PARKING LOT.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK SALES TAX, WE DON'T NECESSARILY, WELL, THE THING IN CARS, YOU'RE GONNA GET YOUR SALES TAX ANYWAY.
THE THING THAT COMES TO MIND TO ME RIGHT OFF THE BAT IS EVERY VALENTINE'S DAY, THERE'S PEOPLE PARKED IN EVERY PARKING LOT AROUND HERE SELLING BALLOONS AND FLOWERS AND VAES AND, AND THAT KIND OF STUFF.
AND I'M PRETTY SURE THAT'S ALL TAXABLE.
AND THEY'RE REALLY PUTTING A HURT ON YOUR BRICK AND MORTAR.
THEY MAY HAVE PAID SALES TAX WHEN THEY BOUGHT 'EM, BUT IF THEY'RE RESELLING THEM, THEY EITHER NEED A, THEY EITHER NEED TO HAVE A RESALE CERTIFICATE WHERE THEY DON'T PAY 'EM WHEN THEY BUY 'EM.
BUT IF THEY'RE GONNA SELL 'EM IN THE CITY OF CLU, THEN THE CITY OF CLU SHOULD BE GETTING THAT SALES TAX.
NOT WHERE, NOT WHERE THEY BOUGHT 'EM OUT.
SO THEN IT REALLY WOULDN'T AFFECT A BUSINESS OWNER LIKE OF, BECAUSE THEY DO PAY SALES TAX ON THE STUFF THAT THEY ARE SELLING OUT IN FRONT.
I THINK THE WORD LEGITIMATE IS WHAT YOU
WE'RE WE'RE, WE'RE MIXING STUFF A LITTLE BIT.
'CAUSE THE, THE SALES TAX IS THE NEXT ORDINANCE WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS.
THIS IS JUST ABOUT SELLING STUFF OUTDOORS.
A JUST SELLING OUT, THERE'S NOT THE TAX PART OKAY.
DEROGATORY WAY, BUT WE'RE SUBJECT TO WHAT SOMEBODY CLAIMS THAT THEY SOLD.
ESPECIALLY IN RESTAURANTS AND PLACES LIKE THAT.
YOU KNOW, THEY MAY SELL, THEY MAY SELL $20,000 WORTH OF STUFF A DAY AND TURN IN 10.
WELL, AND THAT'S WHERE RELYING ON FOLKS THAT USE, AND I HATE TO, THE CASH CAN BE KEPT SECRET, BUT WHEN YOU SWIPE THAT CARD, IT'S TRACEABLE BY THE STATE.
AND SO WHEN THEY'VE COME IN AND DONE AUDITS, THAT'S HOW WE'VE CAUGHT UP AND TRIPPED FOLKS UP AND FOUND WHERE THOSE SALES ARE.
BUT IF YOU'RE JOHN DOE CORPORATION, OR IF YOU'RE EVEN JOHN DOE AND YOU'RE SELLING OUTTA YOUR LOT AND YOU HAVE AN EXISTING SALES TAX CERTIFIC, EVEN IF YOU'RE SELLING ON CLUE, BUT YOUR SALES TAX CERTIFICATE SAYS YOU LIVE IN WEST COLUMBIA OR JONES CREEK OR WHEREVER IT IS, THEY'RE GETTING THAT BUY IF THEY'RE SWIPING A CARD AND WHETHER THEY, EVEN IF THEY REPORT IT.
SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE, AND I'M, I'M GETTING ONTO THE NEXT ORDINANCE.
SEE THAT'S THE NEXT, WELL, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADDRESS THE, YOU KNOW, AND LIKE I SAID, NEXT ORDINANCE ON SALES TAX.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADDRESS THE, THE FOLKS THAT ARE OPERATING, YOU KNOW, OUT OF A PARKING LOT.
SO WE HAD A MOTION IN A SECOND TO GO INTO DISCUSSION.
UH, I BELIEVE THAT COUNCIL PERSON MADDOX MADE THE, UH, MADE THE MOTION.
WOULD YOU CARE TO REVISE YOUR MOTION TO, OR DO WE NEED TO VOTE ON THIS ONE AND LET IT FAIL? MR. GUIAR MADE THE MOTION.
DO, DO WE NEED TO REVISE THE MOTION OR DO WE NEED TO VOTE ON IT AND LET IT FAIL AND THEN RE NO, YOU CAN, YOU CAN MOTION TO TABLE.
UM, WE CAN TABLE, BUT, BUT WE WOULD LIKE, IF YOU HAVE ANY DIRECTION ON TIME ON REQUIREMENTS, WE'D LIKE THAT
[00:30:01]
FEEDBACK SO WE KIND OF KNOW WHAT TO BRING BACK TO Y'ALL.I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT LEGITIMATE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT HAVE A, AN ESTABLISHED BUSINESS ARE NOT BEING TOLD THAT THEY CANNOT HAVE A TENT SALE OR THEY CAN'T HAVE FURNITURE OUTSIDE OR CAN'T HAVE ANY OF THEIR PRODUCTS OUTSIDE.
IT WOULD BE ONLY FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRANSACTING BUSINESS ON ANOTHER PERSON'S PROPERTY THAT IT WOULD APPLY TO THAT THEY HAVE TO KIND OF SUB A TIME LIMIT.
SO KIND OF SUBLETTING, RIGHT? IF THERE'S SUB THERE YOU GO.
IF THERE'S JUST SUBLETTING FOR THE DAY THAT THEY, THAT THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT WE, THAT ARE IN THE ORDINANCE AND LIKE, DON'T LIMIT THE BUSINESS OWNER BECAUSE I KNOW THEY'RE, THEY'RE PEDDLERS, BUT IT'S, BUT THEY'RE NOT.
BUT WE HAVE A PEDDLER ORDINANCE THAT THEY WOULD FALL UNDER.
WELL, YOUR PE NO, THE PEOR ORDINANCE ONLY APPLIES TO RESIDENTIAL DOOR TO DOOR.
I MEAN, NOT RESIDENTIAL, BUT IT'S LIKE DOOR TO DOOR SALES.
OUR PEDDLER ORDINANCE ONLY APPLIES TO DOOR-TO-DOOR SALES.
SO IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE, IF Y'ALL ARE, IF Y'ALL, IF I MODIFY THIS SO THAT IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE A SUBLETTER OR IF YOU'RE DOING IT FOR LESS THAN, YOU DON'T HAVE LESS THAN 120 DAYS, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
THEN YOU'RE GONNA, YOU'RE HERE TODAY, GONE TOMORROW PERSON, THEN YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE PEDLER REGISTRATION AND PEDLER ORDINANCE.
WELL, IF WE PUT THE PRESSURE ON THE BUSINESS ON IT MM-HMM.
BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT'S EITHER LETTING IT HAPPEN OR SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT LET IT HAPPEN OR DETERMINE, HEY, YEAH, I DON'T MIND RENTING YOU A PART OF MY PARKING LOT, BUT YOU NEED TO GO DOWN TO CITY HALL.
YOU NEED TO GET YOUR PERMIT, YOU NEED TO SHOW 'EM YOUR SALES TAX PERMIT IF YOU'RE GONNA DO IT IN FRONT OF MY BUSINESS INSTEAD.
NO, GIMME MY $200 A MONTH AND SELL ALL YOU CAN.
BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY ENFORCEMENT IN IT, TO ME, WHO DOES THAT FALL ON? WELL, THAT'S GONNA BE CODE ENFORCEMENT AND THEN THAT CEO AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TYING THAT SALES TAX CERTIFICATE BACK TO.
LIKE I SAID, CARS, THE ONLY THING I SAY ABOUT CARS IS YOU GOTTA PAY SALES TAX ON THEM.
I MEAN, SO WE'RE GOING TO GET, I DON'T KNOW, MATTRESSES OUT FRONT.
TO ME THAT'S NOT, I CALL IT PANHANDLING, BUT I MEAN, UH, PEDDLING BECAUSE YOU'RE JUST, YOU'RE JUST DISPLAYING YOUR WARES.
RIGHT? UH, BUT THIS WOULD ACTUALLY BE DRIVE UP AND SOMEBODY'S GOT A TENT SET UP AND THEY'RE TAKING MONEY, WHICH GOES BACK TO THE POINT OF SALE IF THAT'S A MM-HMM.
THE GRANITE PLACE THAT SHE'S TALKED ABOUT.
MOST ALL THE GRANITE PLACES THAT I'VE SEEN HAVE IT STORED OUTSIDE.
HOW ABOUT SOME OF 'EM HAVE HUGE PARKING LOTS FULL OF IT.
FREEPORT, I MEAN THE GOT IN FREEPORT, I MEAN, RIGHT.
THERE IS, YOU CAN HAVE A BUILDING HALF THE SIZE FOR POINT OF SALES, BUT STORAGE IS OUT OUTSIDE.
SO IF YOU'RE A REGULAR BUSINESS, YOU ALREADY HAVE SALES TAX CERTIFICATE, NO PROBLEM.
YOU COME, HEY, I'M GONNA HAVE, I'M GOING TO SHOW MY STUFF OUTSIDE, YOU KNOW, OR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT SEES, HEY, THEY'RE SELLING THIS STUFF OUT IN THE, IN THE PARKING LOT.
SO THEY GO INSIDE, YOU GOTTA DISPLAY YOUR SALES TAX CERTIFICATE, DON'T YOU? OR THEY CAN ASK TO IT, HEY, YOU HAVE SALES TAX CERTIFICATE? OKAY, YEAH, YOU'RE GOOD.
WE WALK UP, YOU'RE SELLING VALENTINE'S STUFF OR WHATEVER, AND YOU'RE A TEMPORARY SALESPERSON AND HEY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SALES TAX CERTIFICATE TO SELL OUTDOORS.
WE HAVE A, YOU KNOW, HAVE AN ORDINANCE AND UH, IT SAYS, AND THEN, OH, I DON'T HAVE IT.
OKAY, WELL THEN WE CAN JUST GIVE YOU A CITATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IF THEY'RE NOT THE OWNER OF THAT COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OR THE BUSINESS LEASING THE PROPERTY MM-HMM.
'CAUSE YOU DON'T OWN IT AND YOU'RE NOT LEASING IT, YOU'RE JUST POP UP TENT IN THE PARKING LOT,
WELL, WELL, BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING HERE, IT MIGHT NOT BE A BAD, MIGHT NOT BE A BAD IDEA TO CALL A WORKSHOP ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM AND JUST HAVE EVERYBODY COME TO A WORKSHOP AND, AND I MEAN EVEN INVITE SOME BUSINESS OWNERS.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE LEGIT BUSINESS OWNERS INCLUDE, WHICH WE'RE NOT HAVING A PROBLEM WITH ANY, LIKE, LEGIT COMPANIES, LIKE A TON OF THEM OR ANYTHING.
WE POSSIBLY COULD BE HAVING SOME ISSUES.
HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT AND EVERYTHING, ORGANIZATIONS AND
[00:35:01]
EVERYTHING SET UP IN FRONT OF BROKERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT? YOU KNOW, I'M GETTING PICKY NOW.UH, WELL, THEY'RE, WELL WE HAVE, THEY'RE ALREADY EXEMPTED UNDER THE PLO ORDINANCE.
WE HAVE THOSE EXEMPTIONS ON THEIR PEDLER.
I'M, I'M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION.
YEAH, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE THE FUNDRAISER TYPE STUFF IS UNDER THE, IS EXEMPTED UNDER THE SETTLERS.
SO COUNCILMAN AGUILAR, WOULD YOU CARE TO AMEND YOUR MOTION TO TABLE THIS ITEM FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION OF A POSSIBLE WORKSHOP? YES.
AND FOR FURTHER, FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.
AND THE SECOND WAS MADE BY, WAS THAT, DID I SECOND IT? I THOUGHT I DONE THE FIRST OR WHEN YEAH, I SECOND.
SECONDED BY COUNCILPERSON MADDOX.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I, I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS WE NEED SOME MORE WORK
SO HEARING, HEARING NO FURTHER COMMENTS, I WILL TAKE A VOTE ON THE AMENDED MOTION.
WE WILL REVISIT THIS POSSIBLE WORK DROP AND SEE IF WE CAN CLEAR IT UP WHERE IT WILL SUIT ITS PURPOSE.
THE NEXT ITEM WOULD BE CONSIDERATION OF POSSIBLE ACTION TO ADOPT ORDINANCE 2024 DASH OH OH FIVE REQUIRING A SALES TAX CERTIFICATE WITH INCLUDE ADDRESS ON IT TO CONDUCT RETAIL SALES.
AND THIS WOULD BE ORDINANCE NUMBER 2024 DASH OH FIVE.
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF CLUTE, TEXAS CONTAINED A PREAMBLE ADMITTING ARTICLE ONE OF CHAPTER 26 BUSINESSES OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCE OF SAID CITY REQUIRING A CURRENT CLUTE SALES TAX ACCOUNT FOR ALL BUSINESSES REQUIRED BY STATE LAW TO COLLECT SALES TAX, CONTAIN A SEVERANCE CLAUSE, CONTAIN A REPEAL CLAUSE TO PROVIDE THAT THIS ORDINANCE SHALL TAKE EFFECT BE OF ENFORCE FROM AN AFTER DESCRIPTIVE PASSION.
CAPTION HAS BEEN PUBLISHED IN THE BRA IN TWICE IN THE BRAS COURT FACT.
AND WE DON'T HAVE THIS CURRENT ORDINANCE IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCES.
THEY CAN HAVE THEIR CO ONCE IT'S ISSUED, THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR SALES TAX CERTIFICATE.
AND THE WAY WE KIND OF DISCOVERED THIS, WE JUST STUMBLED UPON A COUP AT PART OF OUR THREE 80 AGREEMENTS.
YOU HAVE SOME FRANCHISE BUSINESSES, UH, THAT ARE LOCATED IN, THEY OPERATE INSIDE THE CITY OF INCLUDE IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
UH, AND FOR A WHILE THEY WERE COLLECTING AND SENDING SALES TAX TO THE STATE AND THEN COMING BACK TO US ON THE SALES TAX REPORT.
AND THEN THEY SUDDENLY DISAPPEARED, BUT THEY'RE STILL THERE.
AND WE WENT TO GO CHECK THAT IT TURNS OUT THAT THE ENTIRETY OF THE SALES TAXES BEING PAID TO ANOTHER JURISDICTION, OR IN SOME CASES NO JURISDICTION, WHERE THEY HAVE THEIR LLC AND ORIGINAL SALES TAX CERTIFICATE SET UP.
WHAT, THIS IS A NO BRAINER, THAT'S CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY USUALLY IS JUST YOU CAN SELL IN A CITY AND THE TAX GOES SOMEWHERE ELSE.
WELL, I MEAN, YOU SET YOUR, I MEAN, THE STATE OF TEXAS PASS A LAW WHERE YOU BUY IT ON AMAZON.
IF YOU BUY IT IN CALIFORNIA, THE SALES TAX COMES TO THE, TO YOUR MAILING ADDRESS.
SO YOU'VE GOT, AND I DON'T WANT TO NAME NAMES AND BREACH CONFIDENTIALITY, BUT LET'S SAY YOU OWN FOUR, UH, HAIRSTYLING SALONS THAT PROBABLY ABOUT, AND YOU'RE SELLING SHAMPOO OUT OF THEM, AND YOU HAVE YOUR LLC AT YOUR HOUSE IN, UM, I DON'T KNOW, OUTSIDE OF ROSE SHARON.
AND THAT'S WHERE YOUR TAX DOCUMENTS COME TO.
AND WHEN YOU FIRST SET YOUR BUSINESS UP, YOU WERE COLLECTING SALES TAX AND REPORTING THAT UNDER A CERTIFICATE FOR THIS LOCATION.
BUT THEN WHEN YOU GO TO RENEW THE NEXT YEAR WITH THE STATE, INSTEAD OF RENEWING THAT LOCATION, YOU JUST HAVE EVERYTHING SENT TO YOUR LLC, WHICH IS OUTSIDE OF A CITY, BUT YOU'RE STILL REMITTING BULK SALES ON YOUR SWIPES TO THE STATE.
THE STATE DOESN'T REALLY KNOW.
THEY ASSUME YOU'RE DOING ALL YOUR BUSINESS AT THAT PLACE RATHER THAN HAVING YOUR THREE SATELLITE LOCATIONS AND LET'S SAY LAKE JACKSON, ROW SHARON AND, AND CLUE.
AND AGAIN, THAT IS JUST A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION THAT WE MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT HAVE ENCOUNTERED.
SO TYPICALLY YOUR, YOUR CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS JUST BASED ON INSPECTIONS ON, YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING CODE REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO THIS WOULD ADD ADDITIONAL DEAL THAT SAYS THAT, WELL, WHEN WE, BEFORE YOU GET YOUR CO YOU HAVE TO GIVE US A, A LOCAL SALES TAX CERTIFICATE.
SO WE KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A CHAIN OR SEVERAL AND, YOU KNOW, IF THIS COULD BE BIG CHAINS THAT DO IT, OR EVEN LIKE, UH, CJ SAYING KIND OF A MORE MOM AND POP THAT THEY'RE, THEY JUST DON'T WANNA MESS WITH HAVING TO GET A CERTIFICATE FOR EACH LOCATION.
SO THEY JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST WANT TO DO ONE REPORT AND RIGHT.
IT WAS, BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THOSE CELLS DIDN'T ACTUALLY OCCUR IN THE, IN THAT OTHER CITY, THEY ACTUALLY OCCURRED HERE.
SO, I MEAN, I GUESS THIS, WE NEED TO PREVENT THAT LEAKAGE, I GUESS YOU'D SAY.
I GUESS THIS COULD EVEN OCCUR WITH LIKE A
[00:40:01]
AUTOMOTIVE CELL.IF SOMEBODY, HONDA CLEAR LAKE HAS EVERYTHING SET THE HONDA CLEAR LAKE.
EAST SIDE, EAST SIDE OF HOUSTON AND THEY'RE SELLING CARS DOWN HERE SOMEWHERE.
SO I, LIKE I SAID, I MEAN EVEN THE STATE THAT PASSED A LAW ON THE AMAZON AND, AND, AND ALL LONG NIGHT SALES, ALL THOSE KIND OF SALES, YOU WANT CARE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ORDINANCE 2024 DASH 7 0 5.
BUT DID YOU EXPLAIN IT ONE MORE TIME? WE HAVE A MOTION.
LET'S HAVE A SECOND THEN WE'LL DISCUSS.
WE HAVE A SECOND BY COUNCIL PERSON MAD.
THE MOTION WAS MADE BY COUNCILMAN CHRIS, SECOND BY COUNCIL PERSON MAD THE FLOOR'S OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.
SO THE, THE, THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN IS THAT NUMBER ONE, LET'S SAY YOU'RE A NEW BUSINESS BEFORE YOU CAN GET YOUR CO YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT, UH, TO THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE A, UH, SALES TAX CERTIFICATE FOR THAT LOCATION HERE IN INCLUDE, LET'S SAY YOU'RE AN EXISTING BUSINESS.
UH, THEN ANYTIME CODE ENFORCEMENT COULD GO IN AND SAY, HEY, LET ME SEE YOUR SALES TAX.
IF IT'S, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LOCAL ONE FOR THAT LOCATION, THEN WE COULD REVOKE YOUR CO RETROACTIVELY, LIKE, OKAY, YOU CAN'T TRANSACT BUSINESS.
IS THERE ANY WAY ON LIKE IN THE DATABASE OR ANYTHING TO KNOW WHO AND WHO DOES NOT HAVE A
SO THE WAY WE DO THAT IS VIA AUDIT.
UM, AND SO WE PULL THE SALES TAX REPORT FOR THE ENTIRE CITY OF THE CONFIDENTIALITY REPORT AND THEN WE ANALYZE THOSE TABLES.
AND SO I DON'T WANT TO DIVE OFF INTO WHAT'S IN THAT REPORT, BUT BASICALLY WE SEE WHAT'S BEING SOLD IN TRANSACTION, WHAT'S BEING REPORTED AS BEING SOLD AND TRANSACTED.
AND SO THE WAY WE INITIALLY DISCOVERED THIS PROBLEM WAS WE NOTICED, HEY, BUSINESS A WAS PAYING THIS MUCH IN SALES TAX PAT LAST YEAR, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN BUSINESS A IS NOT PAYING ANY SALES TAX TO US.
HOW IS THAT? AND THEN YOU SEND IT TO THE STATE AND ASK THEM TO CONDUCT AN AUDIT ON THAT ACCOUNT.
AND THE AUDIT, THE STATE GOES, WE'RE COLLECTING EVERY PENNY FROM 'EM, WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? AND THEN WE SAY, WELL, THAT BUSINESS IS HERE.
IT'S LOCATED HERE BASED ON THEIR SALES TAX CERTIFICATE.
SO WE'RE GONNA REQUIRE AN ORDER FOR THEM TO GET THEIR CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE IT REGISTERED, THEIR SALES TAX REGISTERED TO AN ADDRESS HERE INITIALLY.
WELL, WELL TO THE, TO THE LOCATION THAT THEY'RE GETTING THE CO.
AND, AND THE THE THING IS, YOU'VE GOTTA BE CAREFUL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STEPPING OVER BOUNDS WITH STATE LAWS, YOU KNOW, ENFORCING STATE LAWS WITH LOCAL LAWS.
SO THAT'S WHY AN EXISTING BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THEY HAD ONE AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THEIR, THEIR TAX CERTIFICATE IS A DIFFERENT LOCATION AND WHEN THEY FIRST OPENED THEY HAD A LOCAL ONE, AND NOW THEY DID, THEN WE WOULD, UH, YOU KNOW, REVOKE THEIR CO I DON'T THINK WE COULD NECESSARILY FIND THEM BECAUSE THEN NOW WE MIGHT BE STEPPING OVER INTO, YOU KNOW, THE COMPTROLLER'S, YOU KNOW, TURF.
SO, UH, THIS IS JUST A, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, WE'RE ALLOWED TO GIVE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY BASED ON, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER OUR GUIDELINES ARE.
AND THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE GUIDELINES.
SO AN EXISTING BUSINESS, IT WOULD BE LIKE WE JUST SHOW UP AND SAY, HEY, WE NOTICED THAT THERE, THERE'S NO SALES TAX COMING FROM THE CITY, FROM YOUR BUSINESS, AND WE NEED TO SEE YOUR, UM, SALES TAX DOCUMENTATION THAT SHOWS THAT THE ADDRESS IS HERE.
AND IF NOT, THEN WE'RE GONNA NEED YOU TO CHANGE THAT.
I, I ASSUME WE GIVE THEM A TIMEFRAME OF IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS, WHATEVER'S DECIDED AND THEN WE DON'T FIND 'EM OR ANYTHING.
WE JUST WOULD TAKE THEIR CMM FROM 'EM UNTIL THEY DO CHANGE THE SALES TAX BACK TO CLUE.
I THINK I'M, I THINK I GOT IT NOW, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT WHEN WE, WHEN WE REQUESTED AUDIT, WE'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO REQUEST WHAT, FOUR OR FIVE BUSINESSES AT A TIME, RIGHT? WELL, YEAH, WE HAVE TO DO IT IN DRIBS AND DRABS.
SO HOW DO WE CANCEL A CEO OR, OR REVOKE A CO.
HOW DO WE DO? HAS THAT EVER BEEN DONE? I'M INVENTING IT TODAY.
SO THE ANSWER'S NO, IT'S NEVER BEEN DONE.
NO, I'VE SEEN IT DONE FOR CODE VIOLATIONS, NEVER FOR THIS.
I JUST HATE TO SEE US PASSING ANOTHER ORDINANCE WITHOUT ANY TEETH IN IT.
WELL, ARE WE ABLE TO DO THAT? MM-HMM.
RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT A VIOLATION, BUT THEY GO, OKAY, I'M A VIOLATION.
[00:45:02]
AND THEY ASK YOU TO LEAVE THE PROPERTY.WHAT DO WE DO IF THEY DON'T? WE HAVE TO POLICY, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE HAD PEOPLE THAT DO, YOU KNOW, ZONING VIOLATIONS OR WHATEVER.
WE CAN GET A RESTRAINING ORDER.
WE CAN FILE A SUIT AND SAY, HEY Y'ALL CAN'T Y'ALL HAVE TO STOP CONDUCTING BUSINESS 'CAUSE WE REVOKED YOUR CO RIGHT.
SO THEN WE HAVE TO GO TO GET JUDGE TO ENFORCE IT AND AT SOME POINT, ONCE THEY'VE LOST THEIR CO THEY LOSE THEIR ABILITY TO CONTINUE UTILITY SERVICE.
WELL THAT SURE SEEMS LIKE THAT'S GONNA BE HARD TO DO.
IT MIGHT BE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER MECHANISM TO, AND WHO'S GONNA ENFORCE THAT? THE CODE OFFICERS.
ONCE WE IDENTIFY THAT WE'RE MISSING SOMETHING, WE WILL HAVE TO SEND THEM OUT.
I MEAN, WE'RE IN THE RESTAURANTS TWICE A YEAR AS IT IS, BUT THE, THOSE AREN'T OUR, WELL, MOST RESTAURANTS AREN'T OUR BIGGEST DEFENDERS.
SO DOES THIS ENTAIL, I KNOW THE SALES TAX DON, MAYBE WE'VE ALREADY PASSED OVER IT, SO I GUESS IT'S THE WRONG TIME TO ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT BUSINESSES OPERATING OUT OF PROPERTIES WITH NO, WELL, I THINK THIS GETS BACK TO YOU'VE GOT A BUSINESS OPERATING OUT OF THAT, AND THAT'S OUR MECHANISM THERE IS AGAIN, WE HAVE TO FILE A LAWSUIT TO GET THEM TO STOP.
IS THAT FINANCIALLY DOABLE? HONESTLY, HONESTLY, IT'S NOT THE NORM.
SO IT'S FAIRLY RARE THAT I THINK WE'VE DONE IT TWICE SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE FOR THE SAME PROPERTY.
SO, UH, BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT THIS GUY, I KNOW WHAT I KNOW IN ONE PARTICULAR INCIDENT, I KNOW WHAT THE GUY'S GONNA TELL YOU, AND I'M JUST CURIOUS AS WHAT IT'S LIKE CHECKERS, WHAT'S THE NEXT MOVE? YEAH.
THAT'S JUST HOW I SEE CHECKERS ALL WENT TO THE END.
OTHER SALES? UH, THE OTHER, I GUESS IT'S JUST, WELL, I MEAN PART OF DOING THINGS, THIS, THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION WHILE WE'RE IN DISCUSSION HERE, BUT IF WE'RE GONNA ALLOW THEM TO SELL IN THE CITY OF CLUTE THAT WE SHOULD REQUIRE THAT THEY HAVE A CITY OF CLUTE SALE TAX LICENSE.
I MEAN, THAT'S JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS ORDINANCE DOES.
IT'S IT'S TRYING TO FOR, BECAUSE YOU CAN COME GET THAT ORIGINAL AND THEN YOU CAN REASSIGN IT.
I THINK IT'S WITHIN 30 DAYS ON THE SECRETARY OR THE COMP CONTROL'S WEBSITE.
AND SO THIS IS A WAY JUST TO TRY AND CATCH UP WHEN WE SEE 'EM FALL OFF THAT REPORT TO SAY, OKAY, BUSINESS A WAS PAYING THIS, WE KNOW BUSINESS A IS STILL THERE, LET'S GO GET, FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON.
WE'RE NOT GONNA GET, IT'S NOT A PERFECT SYSTEM, BUT IT'S A START TO, WELL, I MEAN, IT GIVES YOU, AT LEAST IT GIVES YOU, AT LEAST IT GIVES YOU A MECHANISM TO TRACK WHO ISN'T, WHO ISN'T RIGHT.
WITHOUT HAVING TO DO A BUNCH OF AUDIT REQUESTS.
OR IF YOU DO DO AN AUDIT REQUEST, YOU KNOW WHO TO REQUEST FROM.
JUST NOT, DO YOU NEED A MOTION? I THINK WE ALREADY GOT A MOTION.
WE HAD A MOTION AND A SECOND TO, TO GO INTO DISCUSSION.
UH, IF THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO THE MOTION OR THE SECOND, I WILL HAVE NO FURTHER DISCUSSION.
[VI. NOTICE/ANNOUNCEMENT OF UPCOMING EVENTS AND MEETINGS ]
NEXT ITEM WILL BE ANNOUNCEMENTS, NOTICE AND ANNOUNCEMENTS OF UPCOMING EVENTS AND MEETINGS.WE WILL HAVE A CITY COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY THE EIGHTH, 2024 AT 7:00 PM A TENTATIVE DRAWING FOR PLACE ON BALLOT, FEBRUARY 22ND, 2024 AT 6:30 PM AND A CITY COUNCIL MEETING.
FEBRUARY 22ND, 2024 AT 7:00 PM UH, AND THE NEXT ITEM WILL BE ADJOURN.
MOTION MADE BY COUNCIL LAR, SECONDED BY I'LL SECOND COUNCILPERSON MADDOX PENDING.
IT'S UNANIMOUS MEETING THIS ADJOURN.